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Poster: Death&Mercy Date: Nov 25, 2009 6:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dark Star & St. Steve...... in '79?

"Actually, for some reason I prefer '74 to 1973. I'm not really sure why."

Maybe because 73 jamming is infantile compared to 1974 (well, infantile may be a bit strong). I had the Weather Report suite from DP12 on this morning, and I'm not sure there's a better jam out there, ever.

Cliff, you should review 11/09/79. You'll find 4 or 5 strong efforts. A top 5 1979 for me.

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Nov 25, 2009 7:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dark Star & St. Steve...... in '79?

I would hardly call the jamming on 10/19/73 infantile! Its certainly some of the most profoundly amazing music the band ever played, along with plenty of other music from November of that year!

I do repect your opinion, we seem to have similar taste and agree on some things. Admitedly I very infrequently listen to music from 1979, but 11/9/79 never did much for me, even as part of the Road Trips release. Peace!

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Poster: Death&Mercy Date: Nov 25, 2009 9:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dark Star & St. Steve...... in '79?

I wouldn't call the jamming on 10/19/73 infantile, but perfect example Cliff. Compare the Dark Star/MLB from that one to the Weather Report/MLB from DP12. One is just more sophisticated than the other.

Have a great Thanksgiving my friend.

This post was modified by Death&Mercy on 2009-11-25 17:11:31

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Nov 25, 2009 3:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: '74 vs '73

But does "more sophisticated" mean better? The jams in '73 have a certain flow & sweetness that goes away in '74... The jams in '74 keep getting jazzier, themes are introduced only to be quickly swept away, and moods rapidly arise & evaporate.....there's perhaps a certain impatience & abstractness in them.
Well, everyone has their own preference (I would take the freshness & energy of '72 over the next two years), but "infantile" seems to me like quite an inappropriate description of all pre-'74 jams!

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Poster: Death&Mercy Date: Nov 25, 2009 5:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '74 vs '73

Light,

Saying one thing is infantile in relation to another does not necessarily classify anything as infantile. If I say Eli Manning sucks in relation to Tom Brady, I am not saying Manning sucks.

I love much of 1973 Dead, and call the HCS from DP1 one of the band's greatest moments.

If I were to say the jams from 1973 were "in an earlier stage of development", would that be better?

Agree on 1972 though!!! And I have no problem if one refers to the year as infantile in relation to 73 or 74. It was. I just love the raw energy (like you), and strong vocals.

Anyway, any excuse to get Cliff and Light involved in a 73 vs 74 discussion is a good one.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 25, 2009 8:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '74 vs '73

Jeeezzzz, D&M! Had to search long and hard tonight to find a post worth a damn! This was an interesting exchange...

As I have proved many a time, I don't have the musical brain of a well schooled baboon, but I can see what you mean by the term, infantile, in a nonjudgmental fashion.

I suppose my beloved 68 shows would be positively "first trimester", eh? I can defn appreciate that view, in which it's the energy alone that makes it for me...DS certainly progressed a great deal, and what they do in 68 is long way from what they achieve in 70, for my era...

When I listen to 72-74 DS, for me, there are some really nice "musically complex/sophisticated" (I think...musicians with me have said so, and guys like you three that seem to know, echo that), but often they lacked the spark or drive I'd somehow seem to hear in mine...also, sometimes the spacey sections were less focused, though not sure that's the point.

Anyhow, wish I really knew how to judge such things, but I just go on what I like of course.

Happy Thanksgiving...

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Poster: Death&Mercy Date: Nov 26, 2009 6:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '74 vs '73

Yep Tell, when you get the likes of Cliff and Lia, and you for that matter, involved in some good old Grateful Dead discussion, something good usually happens.

Happy Thanksgiving to you as well my friend.

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Poster: St. Owen Date: Nov 25, 2009 4:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '74 vs '73

1974, UCSB is a favorite in '73

but this early 1974 jam got my goat ?

Playing In The Band ->
Uncle John's Band ->
Morning Dew ->
Uncle John's Band ->
Playing In The Band

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Nov 25, 2009 4:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: '74 vs '73

I also believe '72 has it all over BOTH '73 and '74...if only because the band sounds so much tighter and more focused in its jamming.

'73 does have a nice flowing sweetness (i.e. The Birdsong from 6/22/73 and many of the "He's Gone" jams from that year, as well as the HCS jams (esp. 12/16/73)

'74 does open the Jazz door a bit wider, which i like a lot, but there also seems to be some loss of focus...I tend to really get annoyed with the over-drawn Darkstars from this year--(but to be fair, that trend started in '73.
I think the best thing '74 had going for it was CHINA>RIDER. To my ears, the combo never sounded better before or since. (i.e. 2/24/74, my all-time favorite...but they're all splendid from that year...They seemed to concentrate more on that combo in '74 in terms of locking down the jazz effect, along with jamming --the intro of the MLB jam--and hard rocking as well driven by Billy's unsurpassed drumming efforts.

They're all fine years, but i would rank them in order, '72 to '74 as best on downward...I think given the huge volume of shows they played in '74 there was some burn-out, too, hance the semi-retirement, which did them all good.